Laurie Edison assists a jewelry customer at the 2000 World Fantasy Con on October 27. (Photo by Jean Marie Ward)

Laurie Edison: I don't know. I love doing the jewelry. The jewelry I've done has given me freedom. It took me a fair number of years to be able to do exactly the jewelry I want and express myself artistically and make a living from it, but I've been successful now for a long time.

Crescent Blues: And you're not interested in giving that up.

Laurie Edison: I'm not interested in giving up the jewelry, and I'm also not interested in going through the process I would have to, to have the same situation with photography.

Crescent Blues: So it's a good mix for you now?

Laurie Edison: Yes. I'd have to do things I wouldn't like as much in order to support myself with the photography. I do make some money from the photography, and it is becoming an increasing part of my income, but since I really love doing the jewelry, making the photography pay for everything is not a priority. And that's good for the work.

Crescent Blues: Since you don't have to make it pay, you can make it what it needs to be.

Laurie Edison: Exactly.

Cat stretch - Laurie Edison based the shape of this pin on the drawings of Edward Gorey. (Photo by Suzanne Frisbee)

Crescent Blues: How long have you been making jewelry, and how did you get into that?

Laurie Edison: I've been making jewelry...let's see...thirty years. My grandmother had a jewelry store in Greenwich Village. My family's goal for my training would have been to make me something far more intellectual. And I've always felt very, very fortunate that both with the photography and the jewelry, while I do work with my head a lot, I'm basically a person who works with her hands. I feel very blessed by that.

Crescent Blues: Getting back to Women En Large, are there aspects of the work that you'd like to cover that we haven't explored yet?

Laurie Edison: One of the major things about Women En Large that we didn't expect was when we asked women to write about their experience being photographed, we figured we'd get a nice variety. Instead, almost everyone wrote about the transformational effect of being photographed, and how profoundly it had made them feel really good about how they looked. And how much that had changed their lives.

Crescent Blues: Even the people who had been active in the size acceptance movement?

Inchworm - A silver worm creeps across a jade leaf in this Laurie Edison pendant. (Photo by Jean Marie Ward)

Laurie Edison: Absolutely, because everything happens by degrees. Being photographed was really an incredibly transformative experience for most of the women. One woman threw out her entire wardrobe. Even women who had been in the size acceptance movement, it moved them up the acceptance scale. Not quite everybody, but certainly the majority.

Similarly, the vast majority of the men I've photographed have really liked being photographed. For some it has been transformative, and for some of them it has not been transformative. One of the effects of being in the middle of a project -- we didn't find out the effects on the women who were in Women En Large until the end, so I don't quite know enough about the different ways it has affected men yet.

Crescent Blues: Do you think photographs are more successful with the people who do find it a transformative experience?

Laurie Edison: No, because there are lots of ways of really liking a portrait. One man I photographed looked at it and realized that he was extremely attractive, and he really hadn't known it before. Seeing their pictures clearly affects the men I've photographed. I do know that most of them have really liked how they looked.

Also, I don't think any more than 10 percent of the women I asked to be photographed for Women En Large said no. That's an extremely small number. And the very few women who said no, refused because they figured they'd lose their jobs or their pensions. Although one woman who worked for the federal government just went in to her boss and said, "I've been asked to pose nude for a book. I would really like to do this. Is this going to affect my job or my pension?" And the government board that makes those basically said, "We would prefer that you don't do this, but we can't stop you as long as you don't use your full name or mention where you work." And she is, indeed, in the book. At this point, she's retired.

Airborne - A crane appears ready to fly across a tiger-eye sun in this Laurie Edison piece. (Photo by Jean Marie Ward)

Crescent Blues: And her pension is safe.

Laurie Edison: Well, she was very careful; she got it in writing. Anyway, about 25 percent of the men I've asked have turned me down. If I hadn't done Women En Large, I would think that was a very low number. And it's always been because they're afraid it will affect their work. Obviously, the men I have photographed have been every bit as brave as the women I photographed for Women En Large. It's a very courageous thing to do.

Crescent Blues: Yes, it would be a rather unusual thing to have coming out at work -- unless you work in a very different environment than the majority of people in this world. Earlier today my boss asked me about going to dinner with a group of people from the office, and I said, "No, I can't go to dinner; I have something planned." And my boss said, "Oh, anything interesting?" I said yes and explained what I was doing. He got this rather odd look on his face. I said, "I'll have to let you read the article." He didn't seem disapproving or shocked; he just seemed...puzzled.

Laurie Edison: That's the whole business about masculinity not being discussed. A woman on Canadian television did a really nice program on me and my work. They came down here and photographed women and men who were in the photographs and filmed me all over the city. She said that when she went back and she was running the tape, people really reacted to it.

They typically were reacting positively, but she had a sense that this was not something people expect to see. When they realize they are seeing really respectful portraits, they have a very different experience. Respectful portraits of people in the nude are something you don't see at all. Or very rarely.

Crescent Blues: True. You see loving, affectionate portraits of particular people of whom the photographer or artist is fond. I'm thinking of a photographer who has done very beautiful nude photographs of his wife and toddler. But not of people who are not connected to you.

Sailing on a black velvet sea - Three diminutive silver ships display very different forms, from avian, to anthropomorphic to realistic. (Photo by Jean Marie Ward)

Laurie Edison: And of male nudes, there are even less -- I was thinking more of male nudes when I said that. But if you took the percentage of female nudes who were portrayed respectfully as real people, as a portion of all the female nudes in the world, the percentage would be miniscule. And certainly we've seen far more respectful nudes of women than we have of men.

Which makes me remember another difference between men and women being photographed. Even if individual women are not used to being looked at, women are used to the idea of being looked at.

Crescent Blues: The idea that as women they are the observed sex.

Laurie Edison: Yes. And men are not. So when you photograph men, you have an extra component. Most of the men I have photographed have indeed relaxed and been very comfortable, but it is clearly more difficult for men to relax than for women. And I think that one primary reason is that men are simply not accustomed to the idea of being looked at. And, apropos of sex, I think many women are far more comfortable being photographed by a woman, and I think men are also more comfortable.

Crescent Blues: You think they'd be more uncomfortable if you were a male photographer?

Laurie Edison: That is something I have heard over and over again. Some from people I've photographed, some when I've given talks to photographers. And when I've talked to groups of photographers -- men, primarily, in this case -- they've pointed out to me how much easier it is for me to do this because I'm a woman. Men, as a group, feel far more judged by other men than they do by women.

Crescent Blues: Do you think being photographed by a woman lets them stay a little bit in that box?

Laurie Edison: No, I think it's the opposite. I think a woman is more apt to photograph a man out of the box, because the masculinity box is really about the reaction of other men.

Crescent Blues: And having a male photographer there...

Laurie Edison: Would keep a man more in the box. Clearly, I believe that male photographers could do this. But I think it is overall more comfortable for men to be photographed by a women. Most masculinity stuff is about being evaluated by other men, not primarily by women.

Crescent Blues: So by being a woman photographer you free them from that pressure...

Laurie Edison: From some of that pressure.

Crescent Blues: How do other photographers react to the work?

Laurie Edison: Overall, very well. Technically, the kind of social change work I do requires me to be a master printer, so photographers can't look at my work and criticize it technically, when what they really mean is "I wish you would do something else."

Crescent Blues: So you've had to learn to be an expert.

A selection of pendants - These three pendants display the range of stones Laurie Edison uses in her jewelry. The center pendant, featuring purple jade and a baroque pearl, is latest in her Vase series. (Photo by Jean Marie Ward)

Laurie Edison: I have been a very expert printer long enough for it to show in Women En Large as well as in Familiar Men. So I usually get an extremely positive technical reaction from photographers. And aside from technical commentary, I think I get the same reaction from photographers that I get from people in general. A "photographer" can be anything from somebody who likes to take pictures of their family to somebody who's exhibiting professionally. From fine art photographers I generally get a really good reaction.

Crescent Blues: Do you feel you've changed the subject matter that some of them are seeing?

Laurie Edison: I get mail from people who, artistically, have been very seriously affected by my work. So yes, there's no question about that.

Crescent Blues: And it may or may not take the path of them using the same subject matter?

Laurie Edison: Truthfully, most of the photographic work people send me or tell me about is work with the human body. They tell me they feel as if my work has freed them or pointed them in a direction they never expected to take. At an exhibition or a book or slide show, someone frequently says, "You know, your work has really made me feel free to do what I want."

But people who sit down and write me long letters are usually people who are doing, not necessarily nude work, but work that is concerned with the human body. Or people who had not thought of doing work with the human body because they thought it was a very narrow area, stretching from A to B. But once they see my work they think, "You know, I could do something in that area, because it's a much bigger space than I thought." I just got a long letter from a woman in New York asking if I would look at her work. She saw my work seven years ago and it was one of the major determining factors underlying what she's been doing.

Crescent Blues: When that sort of thing starts coming home after so long, and you realize you have profoundly affected peoples lives...

Laurie Edison: Yes, and going to Japan and realizing that the work crosses cultures, which is not something Debbie and I would ever have suspected.

Crescent Blues: And how does the reaction there differ?

Laurie Edison: It was amazing. Women En Large was part of a major museum exhibition in Japan three or four years ago, and Debbie and I both went for the opening. The amazing thing was that in that very different culture, the reaction was not that different. The size obsession in Japan makes the U.S. look like we don't have one. I look like the "before" picture for a Japanese diet ad, and the "after" picture for an American one. I stood in the museum and saw women crying while looking at the pictures.

We gave a number of talks, and got the Japanese press equivalent of articles in The New York Times. My work was reviewed a lot and the pictures were printed in totally mainstream Japanese publications. Journalists and art critics had been writing about my work before I was in Japan, and the reaction has been very positive and very amazing. And also, more in Japan than in this country, men have looked at the work and said, "I just want you to know that I don't think this looks very good."

Crescent Blues: Do you think they were just more direct or more apt to feel that way?

Laurie Edison: The Japanese are extremely polite people. But I think there's even less of my kind of work in Japan than there is here. So some of the reaction is just that it is shocking. On the other hand, a lot of men in Japan really like my work. And the fact that the Japanese are very excited about Familiar Men is really wonderful. One of the photographs has been used for a Japanese book cover, for a book by a woman who's a popular culture critic and who has written about my work, but not in this particular book. And the picture reproduced very well, which is always nice.

My work has been shown in England and Denmark and Germany and the Netherlands, and been very well received. But Japan is not western culture. It's a unique country. So the fact that the work transcends the cultural barrier is wonderful, but it certainly surprised us. The trip for the November exhibition will be my third professional trip to Japan.

One other thing that got me involved in the size acceptance aspect of my work is that I have two daughters. The younger one wasn't fat -- she was kind of sturdy. And yet, I realized, "Oh, my God; people are harassing my kid for being fat when there's an epidemic of anorexia in the first grade." And you start realizing that these young girls...

Crescent Blues: They start dieting in the first and second grade.

Laurie Edison: Yes. It's gotten worse. It was never good, but it's gotten progressively worse. In the Fifties, the models in magazines represented approximately twenty-five percent of the women. In the Eighties, when I was doing this work, we used to talk about how now the models in the magazines only represent nine percent of the women. Then we got to the nineties and computers, and now the models don't represent anybody.

Crescent Blues: Not even the models.

Laurie Edison: Exactly. So you've got these little girls trying to make themselves look like women who don't exist.

I've been doing size acceptance work since 1984, and we've seen really major change in that time. Something as simple as, when I started, fat women talked a lot about the fact that they couldn't find attractive clothes. There weren't any. Now, if they live in a major city or can get catalogues, fat women can get very nice clothes.

A few cities in this country have passed anti-size discrimination laws -- San Francisco and Madison, Wisc., among them. And you see people like Camryn Manheim. So there has been a real change in attitudes. It's still awful; it's not like everything is sunshine and light. But a fat woman in this country can at least hear some positive messages and see some positive images. I'm not talking about people involved in a movement now; I'm talking about the average woman. She's going to see some articles and she's going to see some discussion of positive things about fat and size. That was not true when we started, at all.

That also makes me hopeful. I can already see things that are changing about how masculinity is viewed in the culture -- that the work I'm doing now is also going to be very useful and clearly it is being done in a climate where it supports other work and that other work supports it.

With Women En Large, Debbie and I thought we were making a book for fat women. And we were wrong. Not that fat women don't love the book, but we turned out to be making a book for everybody. So many people have fat mothers, brothers, sisters, lovers, husbands, partners that they think are beautiful, and the world is telling them they're weird. The number of people we have had stand up in slide shows and say, "You know, I've always thought this person I love is beautiful and everyone around me made me feel like there was something wrong with me." Those people needed the book as much as anybody else.

Click here to learn more about Laurie Edison and her photography.

Donna Andrews

Donna Andrews' first mystery, Murder with Peacocks, the winner of the 1998 St. Martin's Press/Malice Domestic competition for traditional mysteries, also won the Agatha and Anthony Awards for best first mystery of 1999. Her second book in the Meg and Michael series, Murder with Puffins, was released this spring.